well that is kind of harsh since i have never lived in one as a wife, but i have seen the joint family setups of my relatives, and even the ones who look happy on the outside always have some aspects that i cannot tolerate.
people usually hate on the wife for asking for her own separate house, and say "oh you should treat your in-laws like your own parents." Uhh...I wouldn't want to live with my own parents either after marriage! And I get along with them so well. I wouldn't want to live with *any* other couple, even if they were my best friends, just because of the lack of privacy. So hopefully my hubby would feel the same.
Potential conflicts in joint family:
-MIL is a housewife, DIL works--> conflict bc MIL feels DIL is neglecting the family and DIL feels deceived b/c MIL knew of her intention to work
-MIL supervises DILs cooking ---> MIL thinks she is just being nice by making sure DIL doesn't mess up/ DIL is annoyed because she can't make a meal in peace
-Son and DIL want to go alone for dinner-->MIL feels hurt that she isn't invited/DIL feels annoyed that she doesn't get any time alone (even worse--son doesn't say anything).
-MIL wants DIL to change her become more religious, or wear less american clothes -->DIL is annoyed because she is not a child--> MIL thinks DIL is disrespecting their faith
-DIL disciplines children to prevent them from getting spoiled--> MIL overpampers the kid --->Kid might turn into spoiled brat or become manipulative
-DIL leaves dishes in sink or postpones some other chores--> MIL is offended that DIL left the chore for her --> DIL annoyed that she has to do everything by her schedule, MIL thinks DIL is lazy.
-If DIL asks for help from hubby, parents in law get offended that DIL is making their son work...so wife is left to do ALL the housework in evening in addition to full-time job (either outside the home or as SAHM) during the day.
-MIL or FIL butt into arguments of DIL and son --->DIL and son are both irritated
-MIL makes snide comments and when DIL tells hubby, he blames it on her. DIL is upset that her opinion means nothing and MIL is upset that her son found out...she might get upset at DIL too.
-Basic affection! Can't kiss each other goodbye, watch a movie on the couch, or even talk about the day without having a feeling of someone watching you!
-Feeling 'monitored' at all times!
-Having to be accountable to in-laws about where you're going
These conflicts can occur very easily, and it doesn't mean one has an 'evil' mother-in-law, it would happen if any two couples had to live in the same house but it is multiplied because the son and DIL are not on the same footing in regards to the 'other couple'. So I really think joint family is 90% YUCK! And that's coming from a person who loves family and having guests over and visiting them.
Just to be fair, I'll add some positives of joint family.
-MIL can help DIL with reducing the burden of chores (*Sometimes*. Other times MIL may demand extra work)
-If DIL is foreign-born or raised, cultural guidance of MIL can be very helpful.
-MIL can help with childcare.
- MIL and FIL are not left alone and share in the happiness of the household.
I know one girl for whom joint family has worked out very well. She has the top floor of the house for herself and hubby, and she even has her own separate room for studying. She is only 20. Her MIL treats her like a daughter. She doesn't have to do any housework at all besides keeping the top floor clean. In dawats she has to help in the kitchen, so she is getting 'training' but doesn't have hassle of managing cooking with job and school. Her parents-in-law pay her tuition for school and are very helpful. The main thing is that her husband is very supportive of her and corrects anyone right away (her SILS can be mean to her). That way she doesn't ever need to say anything and look like the 'bad bahu'.
I think one good scenario would be if the boy and girl establish their own house, enjoy the honeymoon period, get to know each other, have one or two children, and then after that parents can move in. This way it's a completely different dynamic, and the husband/wife have a stronger bond at this point and perhaps have discussed how to make the best of the situation.
Anyway, the main thing for me is to have a great relationship with my in-laws, and both of us should live in a way where we feel comfortable around each other. They might feel weird around me too, most people overlook that! InshAllah...i will have a good relation with them and hub.
Tuesday, November 24, 2009
Sunday, November 22, 2009
Monetizing Motherhood and Marriage
Oooh, I love my title. Anyway, these days a dollar price can be put on virtually anything, so i decided to do the same for marriage. I remember this being done in the news a few years ago, but it was really unrealistic; they basically added up the salaries of a driver, chef, tutor, etc to get the final figure.
I'm trying to give the absolute minimum values for each 'service' provided. For example, under 'nanny services', i only accounted for a workday of 8-6, even though realistically, a mother often has to 'work' in the evening and overnight. I didn't want it to seem like I was trying to inflate figures. Obviously, these aren't official, just for fun.
HUSBAND offers:
1.Rent&utilities-$500/month (cost of 1 bedroom apartment/2)
2.Groceries- $100/month ($300/3)
3.Cell phone bill -$40/month
4.Sperm donation-$50 per pregnancy
5. Round trip airfare- $2000/year
6. Used car like Toyota- $5000 one time cost
7. Auto insurance- $2000/year (wife has own car)
8. Health insurance- $2000/year
9. Gas expenses- $1200/year
So assuming one year, the cost would be $6000 rent+$1200 groceries+$480 cell phone+$50 'donation' (lol) +$2000 airfare+$5000 car+2000 car ins+2000 health ins+1200 gas = $19,930
Since a car is not bought every year, the cost would be $14,930/year.
WIFE offers:
1.Housekeeping-deep clean 4 times a month - $400. There is no charge given here for light daily cleaning like dishes, since that comes under the 'nanny' section.
2.Egg donation --$8000 per pregnancy.
3.Surrogacy -$23,000 per pregnancy.
4.Wet Nurse Services- $1000/week for actual nursing, $700/week for milk from a milk bank. Source: http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/marie-claire/features/society-celeb/article/-/5886111/wet-nurses-the-latest-a-list-accessory/
5. Nanny Services. The cost of having a nanny from 8-6 7 days a week at $12/hour would be $3600/month. The assumption is that duties are shared on the weekend. This figure includes services such as doing laundry, cooking during the day, driving and light housekeeping related to the children; since a normal nanny would do all these duties.
6. Cooking Services. The average chef in an average restaurant gets paid about $10/hour. If we assign the same cost to the wife's labor, and assume she cooks 5 days out of 7, the cost is $200 a month. For breakfast and lunch, we are assuming that husband makes his own and we're not including dinner parties.
The monetary value of services provided here depends a lot on the reproductive status of the Wife. some figures:
A year where woman is stay-at-home but as no child:
$4800 housecleaning+$2400 cook service= $7200
A year where woman is working and gets a maid and orders takeout.
still $7200 since she still has to pay someone else for those services. If a stay at home mom with no kids does this, then it's zero.
A year where woman is pregnant and has her baby in month 9:
$4800 housecleaning+$8000 egg donor+$23,000 surrogacy+$12,000 for 3 months breastfeeding+$10,800 for 3 months of nannying+$2400 for cook service=$61,000
A year where woman has children at home but not pregnant or breastfeeding:
$4800 housecleaning+ $43,200 for 12 months nannying+$2400 cooking=$50,400
INTANGIBLES given mutually:
These things don't have a monetary value; some people would say they are 'priceless'.
-Companionship
-Love
-Lovingzzz (yes some people might call it prostitution, but i think that's crude, since in marriage, it should be a mutual thing)
---
To make it more 'even'
Woman could be a work-outside-the-home mom and pay all her own bills
Housekeeping could be exactly 50/50
Egg/sperm donation could be considered an even exchange (maybe i should remove them in the other calcs too)?
Kid could be on formula rather than breast milk or milk could be bought
Kid could go to nanny
Food could be ordered from outside
Then everything would be even, other than the big task of pregnancy. In countries where women don't work, the guy's income is a huge deal, since the girl would never be able to provide for herself after marriage and kids. Obviously nannies and daycares are not popular in those countries (i don't think any even exist in Pakistan) so after kids, it is very necessary for her husband to be able to earn. So over there, the marriages are mostly out of income concerns rather than a companionship type thing.
In the States, money matters too. Wealthy women usually like to marry a guy as successful as themselves. However, the importance of money to a potential wife is reduced a lot since she is earning herself, and then companionship and romantic compatibility carry a greater weight.
However, despite people marrying for 'love' nowadays, I'm surprised that old school attitudes towards money persist. Men often treat their wife like a child rather than an equal partner just because she is not earning. Like they'll stay stuff like, "oh you spent $5 at starbucks, you could've made chai at home". These men would definitely not question a nanny for spending $5; why are they questioning their wife? Shouldn't they be more lenient and generous with the mother of their child? I hope wives of cheap guys can make them realize this.
I'm trying to give the absolute minimum values for each 'service' provided. For example, under 'nanny services', i only accounted for a workday of 8-6, even though realistically, a mother often has to 'work' in the evening and overnight. I didn't want it to seem like I was trying to inflate figures. Obviously, these aren't official, just for fun.
HUSBAND offers:
1.Rent&utilities-$500/month (cost of 1 bedroom apartment/2)
2.Groceries- $100/month ($300/3)
3.Cell phone bill -$40/month
4.Sperm donation-$50 per pregnancy
5. Round trip airfare- $2000/year
6. Used car like Toyota- $5000 one time cost
7. Auto insurance- $2000/year (wife has own car)
8. Health insurance- $2000/year
9. Gas expenses- $1200/year
So assuming one year, the cost would be $6000 rent+$1200 groceries+$480 cell phone+$50 'donation' (lol) +$2000 airfare+$5000 car+2000 car ins+2000 health ins+1200 gas = $19,930
Since a car is not bought every year, the cost would be $14,930/year.
WIFE offers:
1.Housekeeping-deep clean 4 times a month - $400. There is no charge given here for light daily cleaning like dishes, since that comes under the 'nanny' section.
2.Egg donation --$8000 per pregnancy.
3.Surrogacy -$23,000 per pregnancy.
4.Wet Nurse Services- $1000/week for actual nursing, $700/week for milk from a milk bank. Source: http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/marie-claire/features/society-celeb/article/-/5886111/wet-nurses-the-latest-a-list-accessory/
5. Nanny Services. The cost of having a nanny from 8-6 7 days a week at $12/hour would be $3600/month. The assumption is that duties are shared on the weekend. This figure includes services such as doing laundry, cooking during the day, driving and light housekeeping related to the children; since a normal nanny would do all these duties.
6. Cooking Services. The average chef in an average restaurant gets paid about $10/hour. If we assign the same cost to the wife's labor, and assume she cooks 5 days out of 7, the cost is $200 a month. For breakfast and lunch, we are assuming that husband makes his own and we're not including dinner parties.
The monetary value of services provided here depends a lot on the reproductive status of the Wife. some figures:
A year where woman is stay-at-home but as no child:
$4800 housecleaning+$2400 cook service= $7200
A year where woman is working and gets a maid and orders takeout.
still $7200 since she still has to pay someone else for those services. If a stay at home mom with no kids does this, then it's zero.
A year where woman is pregnant and has her baby in month 9:
$4800 housecleaning+$8000 egg donor+$23,000 surrogacy+$12,000 for 3 months breastfeeding+$10,800 for 3 months of nannying+$2400 for cook service=$61,000
A year where woman has children at home but not pregnant or breastfeeding:
$4800 housecleaning+ $43,200 for 12 months nannying+$2400 cooking=$50,400
INTANGIBLES given mutually:
These things don't have a monetary value; some people would say they are 'priceless'.
-Companionship
-Love
-Lovingzzz (yes some people might call it prostitution, but i think that's crude, since in marriage, it should be a mutual thing)
---
To make it more 'even'
Woman could be a work-outside-the-home mom and pay all her own bills
Housekeeping could be exactly 50/50
Egg/sperm donation could be considered an even exchange (maybe i should remove them in the other calcs too)?
Kid could be on formula rather than breast milk or milk could be bought
Kid could go to nanny
Food could be ordered from outside
Then everything would be even, other than the big task of pregnancy. In countries where women don't work, the guy's income is a huge deal, since the girl would never be able to provide for herself after marriage and kids. Obviously nannies and daycares are not popular in those countries (i don't think any even exist in Pakistan) so after kids, it is very necessary for her husband to be able to earn. So over there, the marriages are mostly out of income concerns rather than a companionship type thing.
In the States, money matters too. Wealthy women usually like to marry a guy as successful as themselves. However, the importance of money to a potential wife is reduced a lot since she is earning herself, and then companionship and romantic compatibility carry a greater weight.
However, despite people marrying for 'love' nowadays, I'm surprised that old school attitudes towards money persist. Men often treat their wife like a child rather than an equal partner just because she is not earning. Like they'll stay stuff like, "oh you spent $5 at starbucks, you could've made chai at home". These men would definitely not question a nanny for spending $5; why are they questioning their wife? Shouldn't they be more lenient and generous with the mother of their child? I hope wives of cheap guys can make them realize this.
Sunday, November 15, 2009
Assimilation or isolation?
I think there are three choices for Pakistanis living in the West.
1. Remain mostly isolated from non-Pakistanis, only socializing with them at school or work. All close friends are Pakistanis or 'at least', other desis or Muslims. --most immigrants do this.
2. Socialize with both Pakistanis and non-Pakistanis but maintain a separate 'personality' around both. ---This is what most ABCDs seem to do.
3. Assimilate into Western society, retaining a few cultural 'artifacts' like clothing or food.--the children of ABCDs will probably do this.
4. Me--isolated from Pakistanis due to location and non-Pakistanis due to cultural difference and parental controls.
The thing is, growing up here, I couldn't go out with any friends on the weekends. The only time I went outside was to desi 'dawats'. Even if I could, I guess I wouldn't have much in common with anyone. After all, I didn't watch movies (since i found most 'haram' at the time), i didn't know anything about music, and i didn't have money to even go out to restaurants with other people. And I couldn't go to the school dance obviously. Not that I wanted to, but my point is that desi norms are really maladapted to American society. I think parents don't understand how isolating it is to go through all of high school without being able to hang out with another person outside of school. I mean, all the American friends are upsetting to Pakistani parents, but if a person is living in a town with only white people, this means that there is no socialization possible for the majority of the year. On the weekends, we used to drive far distances to meet other Pakistanis. Most of them had figured out how to live a double life. But this feels dishonest. I didn't do this. Many white people were really nice to me, invited me to basketball games, to hang out, etc. but daddy never let me. One time I went, and he was completely out of control. So I resigned myself to not going and basically I became a loner. But not a shy loner. A weird type...outgoing, friendly...yet still alone all the time.
I am happy I live in the States, because I've gotten a lot of opportunities here, but I really wish I lived in a place with majority Pakistanis now. I used to have a great rapport with my white friends at work, but due to not being able to socialize enough with them in my formative teen years, I still feel more comfortable around other ABCDs or FOBs. It's a very small subset of people to feel comfortable around and it almost seems unnatural.
I guess I sound really 'ABCD' here...but I really don't want to raise my kids this way. Now I'm 'grown up' and even though there are thousands of people my age around me, whenever I hang out with them it always gets weird because of the cultural difference. Inevitably, everyone my age wants to go clubbing or out to a bar for a few drinks. But I don't go clubbing or drink...and i'm not looking for a boyfriend either...so i end up erasing a lot of potential common ground with ppl my age. I think in places like Toronto people don't feel this 'ABCDness' as acutely, because they are surrounded by other Pakistani people, but here I'm the only desi for miles and miles.
I just want someone to go out to coffee with, go shopping, go to a restaurant, gym, etc. but it's hard to find. I think people want a friend who ideally can accompany them in all social situations. I know I am lacking since I have a strict curfew and I don't drink or dance. Only other desis and Muslims understand that I can't be out at 3 am. But where am I going to meet someone like this 'naturally' when they don't live here?
All I want is a group of friends who understand my situation, who could spend time with me, who could dance on my mehndi, and help with stuff. I am trying to apply out of state for a master's degree. Sure I can do it here, or even online, but inside, I really want to do a degree for the opportunity to make some lifelong friends. I don't know what this life is without friends. I hate my dad's artificial exterior...he has tons of acquaintances who like him, but no one is his close friend. I feel like his strict rules have made me into that same person. But I am not that personality. I don't want to be a respected but aloof person...I want to be a kind person with a lot of friends. I feel I am kind...but a loner :(
1. Remain mostly isolated from non-Pakistanis, only socializing with them at school or work. All close friends are Pakistanis or 'at least', other desis or Muslims. --most immigrants do this.
2. Socialize with both Pakistanis and non-Pakistanis but maintain a separate 'personality' around both. ---This is what most ABCDs seem to do.
3. Assimilate into Western society, retaining a few cultural 'artifacts' like clothing or food.--the children of ABCDs will probably do this.
4. Me--isolated from Pakistanis due to location and non-Pakistanis due to cultural difference and parental controls.
The thing is, growing up here, I couldn't go out with any friends on the weekends. The only time I went outside was to desi 'dawats'. Even if I could, I guess I wouldn't have much in common with anyone. After all, I didn't watch movies (since i found most 'haram' at the time), i didn't know anything about music, and i didn't have money to even go out to restaurants with other people. And I couldn't go to the school dance obviously. Not that I wanted to, but my point is that desi norms are really maladapted to American society. I think parents don't understand how isolating it is to go through all of high school without being able to hang out with another person outside of school. I mean, all the American friends are upsetting to Pakistani parents, but if a person is living in a town with only white people, this means that there is no socialization possible for the majority of the year. On the weekends, we used to drive far distances to meet other Pakistanis. Most of them had figured out how to live a double life. But this feels dishonest. I didn't do this. Many white people were really nice to me, invited me to basketball games, to hang out, etc. but daddy never let me. One time I went, and he was completely out of control. So I resigned myself to not going and basically I became a loner. But not a shy loner. A weird type...outgoing, friendly...yet still alone all the time.
I am happy I live in the States, because I've gotten a lot of opportunities here, but I really wish I lived in a place with majority Pakistanis now. I used to have a great rapport with my white friends at work, but due to not being able to socialize enough with them in my formative teen years, I still feel more comfortable around other ABCDs or FOBs. It's a very small subset of people to feel comfortable around and it almost seems unnatural.
I guess I sound really 'ABCD' here...but I really don't want to raise my kids this way. Now I'm 'grown up' and even though there are thousands of people my age around me, whenever I hang out with them it always gets weird because of the cultural difference. Inevitably, everyone my age wants to go clubbing or out to a bar for a few drinks. But I don't go clubbing or drink...and i'm not looking for a boyfriend either...so i end up erasing a lot of potential common ground with ppl my age. I think in places like Toronto people don't feel this 'ABCDness' as acutely, because they are surrounded by other Pakistani people, but here I'm the only desi for miles and miles.
I just want someone to go out to coffee with, go shopping, go to a restaurant, gym, etc. but it's hard to find. I think people want a friend who ideally can accompany them in all social situations. I know I am lacking since I have a strict curfew and I don't drink or dance. Only other desis and Muslims understand that I can't be out at 3 am. But where am I going to meet someone like this 'naturally' when they don't live here?
All I want is a group of friends who understand my situation, who could spend time with me, who could dance on my mehndi, and help with stuff. I am trying to apply out of state for a master's degree. Sure I can do it here, or even online, but inside, I really want to do a degree for the opportunity to make some lifelong friends. I don't know what this life is without friends. I hate my dad's artificial exterior...he has tons of acquaintances who like him, but no one is his close friend. I feel like his strict rules have made me into that same person. But I am not that personality. I don't want to be a respected but aloof person...I want to be a kind person with a lot of friends. I feel I am kind...but a loner :(
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